00:00
Do you want to learn
English, math, sciences
00:03
to integrate into the Israeli workforce
00:10
Should Haredim study English,
math, sciences
00:15
Pinchas
Bnai Brak
00:17
It depends who
Those that study (Torah), no
00:20
those who study Torah
00:22
those that study Torah, no
00:24
Why? Shouldn't people integrate into...
00:28
Why should we integrate?
00:30
So you can earn a living
00:32
We study (Torah)
00:34
also in the times of Sages they studied
(Second Temple period)
00:37
“His Torah is his livelihood”
so they are forced (to work)
00:40
if someone can get by
without working, they can get by without
00:43
whoever doesn't get by
can go work
00:44
That's clear
00:47
Should Haredim learn
math, English?
00:50
Yochanan
Jerusalem
00:52
In my opinion, yes
00:54
Why?
00:55
It's a good thing
00:56
It's important in life
00:57
Do you think it will help
you integrate into...
01:00
Of course
01:02
Meir
Bnai Brak
01:05
Should Haredim study English
math, science
01:09
in grade and high school
01:12
No
01:13
to integrate and work
01:17
No
01:18
Why?
01:19
Why?
01:22
The Haredim are the continuation
01:25
of the Jewish people from 3000 years ago
01:29
For 3000 years
01:32
the Torah
01:34
has given life to the Jewish people
01:38
and sadly
01:39
there remains today
01:40
just a tiny amount
01:43
of the Jewish people
01:45
that keep the ways of the Torah
01:47
meaning there are
01:49
a few million here in Israel
01:51
and a few million outside Israel
01:53
of Jews
01:55
and of those, there is a small handful
01:57
that keep the ways of the Torah
01:59
It is very important that at least they
02:01
keep the Torah
02:03
as much as possible
02:05
But how do you live?
02:07
You see I live
- how do you earn...
02:09
But do you earn money so...
02:11
Yes, we earn money
02:13
How?
02:14
Me personally?
02:16
If you want to say, yes
02:17
My wife works and earns well
02:20
she works as a computer programmer
02:21
and I also...
02:22
Ok, that is good work
02:24
I also receive a stipend for yeshiva
02:28
and other and other stipends
02:30
and we live, thank God
02:32
A lot of Haredim, don't learn English
02:34
you speak English, because you come from...?
02:36
Sweden
02:37
David
Jerusalem
02:39
don't learn English, math or sciences
02:42
do you think that should be
part of the Haredi curriculum?
02:46
It is part of the Haredi curriculum
02:48
For you? Where?
02:49
I met people, it was Mea Shearim so...
- No
02:52
There it wouldn't be
- No
02:53
Most Haredi, almost all of them
02:56
like 99% have it
02:59
in the curriculum until a certain age
03:01
and then they have full time learning
03:05
from the age of 14
03:07
Learning of?
03:09
of Talmudic studies
03:11
Meaning, no more English, no more...
- No
03:13
No, they don't have it then
03:14
That's an issue in the sense
the person asking the question
03:17
it's an issue if you want to integrate
into the job sector
03:19
then isn't that an issue?
03:20
A lot of people, now
03:23
the young Haredim
I took a course
03:25
to become a fitness instructor
03:27
and a lot of guys who were
- We are in a sports store
03:31
who were in the Haredi system
03:33
they catch up afterwards
03:37
they do a quick course in "Bagrut"
(matriculations)
03:39
they learn mathamatics, English
and geography
03:41
history and all these things
03:43
and they get the "bagrut" (matriculations)
03:45
and they do whatever they want
03:46
they do it within a year
03:48
and now I heard in Beit Shemesh
they have loads of
03:51
Haredi schools in the evening
03:54
and they also do Bagrut
03:55
so it's becoming more and more accepted
03:59
Me and my wife
when my wife flew from
04:02
She is from England
04:04
she also wants our children to have
some sort of ...
04:06
You grew up Haredi?
04:08
No, I didn't
04:09
Did your wife?
04:09
My wife grew up more Modern Orthodox
04:16
So we want them to have more
04:20
more of these studies
04:22
But I don't think that it is a bad thing
04:24
to have a few years, just of Torah study
04:27
I don't think it is such a bad idea
04:29
to have from ages 14-17
04:32
to have 3-4 years of just pure
04:35
Torah study
04:37
I don't think it is so bad
04:40
I don't mind if my son wants to do that
04:42
If he wants to go
we can send him to
04:44
a (regular religious high school) style
04:48
they have almost the whole day Torah studies
04:51
and in the evening, they have secular studies
04:55
You grew up Haredi
04:56
Right?
- Yes
04:57
Haredi education
- Yes
04:59
Yishai
Netanya
05:01
Did you learn English, math?
05:03
I learned English on the streets
05:05
Did you also study it in school?
- No
05:08
No, we didn't study it
05:09
Today, is it lacking? Is it difficult?
05:12
It isn't lacking for me because
I believe in luck
05:14
I know that people didn't
study any profession
05:16
including the CEO of AliBaba (Jack Ma)
and others
05:19
The CEO of AliBaba that in China
has the largest trading store
05:22
I don't know
05:23
If you don't know, he is well known
as a billionaire
05:26
and there are many I know of
05:27
I have a lot of rich friends
who never studied a profession
05:30
so in my opinion,
it is all luck in life
05:32
But you didn't want to learn English
05:36
math, so you can integrate
05:38
Math we learned in school
05:40
I know math very well
05:41
I studied math
05:42
English we didn't study because
I think there
05:45
aren't enough teachers that know
how to teach well in Haredi community
05:47
teachers, it could be that is the problem
05:49
and it could also create a problem
05:52
because if they knew English
they could assimilate among the Gentiles
05:55
and then marry non-Jewish women
and things like that
05:58
That can cause a lot of damage
05:59
I think that is why the rabbis
are against it (learning English)
06:01
but I think today it will change
06:02
because today, the world can't be
without English
06:04
you can't get by without English
06:05
If you want to go to university, could you?
06:08
Possible, today the rabbis are liberal
06:11
It's not like it used to be
06:12
they agree but of course...
06:13
Let's say you want to be an engineer
06:16
I could, there is no problem
06:18
Do you have limitations
because of your education?
06:21
No, I have no limitations, no
06:22
We are, the Haredi society,
most people are very smart
06:27
because we study Talmud
and all sorts of texts
06:30
so we are very smart
06:31
so it is not that problematic
06:32
You can get to...
06:34
with a lot of wisdom you can study anything
06:37
easily
06:37
especially in the age of the internet
06:39
you can learn things in a short time
06:41
it doesn't limit, in my opinion
06:43
but you will find people who
say it does limit
06:46
for example, in the newspaper Haaretz
there was an article not long ago
06:49
they said they don't learn Bible
06:51
and it bothers them
06:52
and someone said "no, it creates "
06:54
The opposite. I think the Bible is not
06:56
It broadens your horizons
06:58
and there were people there
who were very secular thinking
they should study Bible
07:02
It's all
07:04
all on it's merits
07:06
on it's merits
07:08
Are you considered Haredi?
Yes
07:11
Elchanan
Bnai Brak
07:13
Should Haredim study in schools
English, math
07:17
to integrate into the labour market?
07:21
For Haredim, it is not a question of "should"
07:24
What is your opinion?
07:25
It's a question of values
07:31
Should Haredim ....
07:32
Do you want to study English, math
07:37
sciences
07:41
What age are you talking about?
07:43
Let's say high school
07:45
14 to 18
07:46
No, no
07:47
No? Why?
07:48
I wouldn't want to
07:51
It's very important to understand
the Haredi fabric
07:54
those are the years
07:55
that boys dedicate themselves
solely to studying Torah
08:00
Ok
08:00
Maybe before Bar Mitzvah age (13) they should?
08:03
In grade school it is much more possible
08:06
as opposed to the ages you are talking about
08:10
You grew up Haredi
- Yes
08:12
Where did you grow up?
08:13
Dovid
Jerusalem
08:15
In Beitar (West Bank settlement)
and then after marriage we move to Jerusalem
08:19
You had a Haredi education
08:21
Did you study English?
08:23
No, no. I didn't study English
08:24
Did you study math?
08:25
Simple math a little
Not math
08:28
A little. An hour a day
08:31
As a child, we learned simple math
08:33
basic math
08:34
Do you think the Haredi educaton
needs to teach those subjects
08:39
so it is easier to integrate
08:42
in the Israeli economy?
08:44
I don't think we are missing anything
08:46
Thank God, we live in a good situation
08:49
We feel fine economically after getting married
08:52
we don't feel we need any development
08:54
anyone who feels they want to develop
can for sure develop
08:57
there is no problem going to study
going to do what he wants
09:01
In principle, we have no problem
studying things to develop
09:06
Fundamentally, there is no reason
to study science or economics
09:10
because anyone who wants to
study can go and study
09:12
and you don't need to learn those things
09:14
Whoever doesn't want to learn
09:17
someone who wants to study Talmud
doesn't need to study those things
09:21
someone who wants to work
can go and work
09:22
everyone has the option to work
09:24
and it's not a problem today
09:26
in any case they can learn all those things
09:29
Gila (childhood friend)
Beit Shemesh
09:48
I teach Haredim English
09:51
The girls generally learn better than the boys
09:55
There isn't "the Haredi education system"
09:57
There is the men's system
09:59
and there is the women's system
10:01
The women's system is generally better
10:05
they will get more English
10:08
I am generalizing
10:09
Because they are not studying Torah all the time
- Yes
10:11
and because the women's schools
will have more state subsidies
10:16
whereas the men's schools want
to retain more independence
10:19
so they may take less
state subsidies
10:21
so they can stay more independent
10:23
But as soon as you take
money from the state
10:24
you have to ....
10:27
do certain things
10:28
Girls generally get a better
education than the boys overall
10:31
secular education
10:33
even as limited as it is
10:35
but compared to the boys, usually better
10:36
How limited?
10:38
Can they integrate into the workforce?
10:41
A workforce that requires English?
10:43
or regular Israeli workforce?
10:45
What kind of workforce?
10:46
Just your experience
10:48
How easy is it for Haredim
to integrate into the workforce?
10:52
and do they want to?
10:54
I think the younger generation
for the most part
10:56
we are generalizing
10:58
there are all different sects of Haredim
11:00
The younger generation definitely wants to
11:02
they are ambitious
11:03
when I teach and say
"which of you wants to do an MA"
11:07
everybody will put up their hand
11:08
every single student will put up their hand
11:11
Can they?
11:11
Because of limited English or...?
11:13
or their English is good enough
that they are able to?
11:16
Well, a lot of secular Israelis
don't have great English either
11:21
I teach English
11:25
They wouldn't be able to
if it was a requirement
11:28
that you needed to interact so much
11:31
with the USA
11:33
But that's not really their impediment
11:35
I don't think English is the problem
11:37
The state keeps saying it is
English and it is math
11:39
but the truth is that
it is lifestyle
11:40
They need a workforce, a work environment
11:43
that is going to accomodate their lifestyle
11:44
That's going to have...
11:45
What does that mean? Explain to
someone in Canada who has no idea
11:49
That's going to have a high level of kosher
11:53
kosher food
11:55
high level access to kosher food
11:57
that's going to have a separation
of men and women
12:00
for certain events
12:03
or an alternative for them
12:06
that's going to
12:08
If they are men, they have to
go out for Minyan (prayer quorum)
12:11
to pray three times a day
12:13
so they have to accomodate that
12:15
They may need a nursing room
12:18
or lenience
12:20
Obviously all women have issues
with maternity leave
12:24
but if you are having 5, 6, 7, 8 children
12:27
it might be on a longer...
12:29
They're going to need a nursing room
12:31
Hours that accomodate women
with very large families
12:35
I really don't think...
A lot of it is the lifestyle
12:40
Obviously, the truth is
12:43
You aren't going to hire somebody
who doesn't speak English semi regularly
12:46
to deal with an international group anyways
12:51
no matter what their religious level is
12:53
I don't know if that is the big thing
12:56
For some things, yes
12:57
I teach nurses
12:58
Nurses need English
13:00
if they want to advance
13:02
but it's a lot more than English
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